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Post Info TOPIC: Kroger Has to Pay Lower Wages to Keep [Down] with the Competition
Kroger Has to Pay Lower Wages to Keep [Down] with the Competition [9 vote(s)]

True
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False
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Kroger Has to Pay Lower Wages to Keep [Down] with the Competition
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What say you?

False, I say.

Consider:

  • The Kroger niche isn't, "We're the dirt-cheapest thing out there in food."  Charge a penny more for the processed-junk items, and compensate respectably the floor-level folks who make the freshness and friendliness happen.

 

[Edited only to fix the link to the financials.]

[Edited again to restore the poll.]



-- Edited by kroagrr on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 05:05:02 PM



-- Edited by kroagrr on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 07:19:32 PM

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Watching Kroger try difference things to compete over the years has been quite interesting. Also, those are their EBITDA(earnings before interest taxes depreciation and amortization) not their actual profits(Free cash flow) which were still at 1.03B for the year. 1.03B may sound like a lot but with the number of stores they operate, it's not that profitable. That is actually the goal of Kroger, to remain not very profitable as it would open them up for a potential hostile takeover, and their ultimate goal is to grow market share while remaining their own company. That's why a lot of the initiatives that they introduce year after year actually have specific goals to gain market share from competitors(most recently whole foods/organic food sector with the simple truth push).

I like to think of them as a company similar to Amazon which focuses at its' core on growth and revenues, rather than profits. They will use any potential profits in growing their store base, expansions, remodels, acquisitions, etc.

That being said, your question is a loaded one. Can they afford to pay more? Yes, but it would require them to change their strategy. It wouldn't be nearly as simple as tacking on a few cents to products as so much of marketing is competition.

Now that I've explained myself. I do think they should take a better approach for the workers. Having every contract be worse than the last is really demoralizing for employees and their goal of eliminating all of the people on grandfathered contracts is weighing heavy. I would really like them to lead the charge to better worker compensation and stop the downward spiral of contracts.

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Thanks for your quality participation on this thread and elsewhere, DeltaGrocery.

 

. . . question is a loaded one . . .

It's an assertion--one worthy of its own thread, I think--made by another member.  I did change "up" to "Down", as suggested by the brackets in the title. 

 

That is actually the goal of Kroger, to remain not very profitable as it would open them up for a potential hostile takeover . . .

Fascinating angle, one I hadn't imagined.  I could see that as an argument for or against higher wages for the lowest-compensated employees.  On the face of it, to shave off some of that cool billion (a thousand million, for perspective) in free cash, why not drop some of that on bringing the single-digits folk up to $10.10 an hour?

On the con side--don't pay the workers more--because my contention is investing in your people is likely to increase profits, a bad thing in the takeover-target scenario.  My sense is that non-financially desperate employees who feel somewhat appreciated and rewarded will naturally provide superior service, thus potentially boosting return traffic and revenue.

 

I would really like [Kroger] lead the charge to better worker compensation . . .

Yes, absolutely agreed: that would be inspirational and actually give some truth to the term, "team".

 

 



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kroagrr wrote:

 

That is actually the goal of Kroger, to remain not very profitable as it would open them up for a potential hostile takeover . . .

Fascinating angle, one I hadn't imagined.  I could see that as an argument for or against higher wages for the lowest-compensated employees.  On the face of it, to shave off some of that cool billion (a thousand million, for perspective) in free cash, why not drop some of that on bringing the single-digits folk up to $10.10 an hour?

On the con side--don't pay the workers more--because my contention is investing in your people is likely to increase profits, a bad thing in the takeover-target scenario.  My sense is that non-financially desperate employees who feel somewhat appreciated and rewarded will naturally provide superior service, thus potentially boosting return traffic and revenue.

 


I think that there needs to be a federal increase in minimum wage to get any corporation to make a big decision like upping the wage by that much.   Quite frankly, investors wouldn't have it, and if the board passed such a measure , there would be repercussions.   Fundamentally, this is because people are very focused on the now, and not so much the later.   Fear of the stock dropping because of something like this would lead to institutional investors/funds selling their stakes.   Lots of people in Kroger have 401k heavy with Kroger stock, and that would most likely cause it to lose a ton of value as well.    These are the perils of being a public company and why private ones can treat their employees a lot better(see: publix)

 

So, we have two options that I feel would do the least damage while boosting morale and employee compensation.

 

1) Federal wage increase(and Kroger opts to increase non-minimum wage workers comparatively while keeping benefits)   I feel like $9.00 per hour would be a good middle ground to try to balance both sides of the table.

2) Have contracts begin to look positive for once.  No more dropping holidays, no more insurance cost spikes, not basing insurance on hours worked, etc  maybe coupled with a wage increase to exceed inflation by a small margin(0.50/hr a year)

 

These are small steps that I don't think would harm investor relations that much, and gradually help.

Pretty much anything to separate us from how walmart treats employees.   Instead of us being forced into trying to match their ever-worsening employee treatment, the hope that it would put pressure on other companies aside from walmart to do the same, ultimately forcing walmart to better treatment and creating a better economic platform for people in general.

 

One more thing, I do think there is a bottoming out point.   The less employees are paid, the more they rely on federal assistance.   When a large percentage of all workers need federal assistance and their respective companies are pocketing billions, it's then up to the government to increase wages to lessen the burden on the taxpayer and into the hands that actually can help.   Because unless the government does something, a company will do everything legally they can to grow their companies pockets.   I think this is the fault with the law, and not necessarily with the company.   Sure it'd be nice if executives of fortune 500 companies suddenly decided to not take advantage of legal loopholes, but alas that is a pipe dream.   People will be people, so we need some regulation to keep the people content and not just the 0.01%.

 



-- Edited by DeltaGrocery on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 07:58:01 PM

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As long as the dumbasses who shop at Kroger continue to shop there, Kroger will make its money.
The dumbasses that think it's okay to abandon their cart in the lobby.
The dumbasses that will drive within inches of a courtesy clerk pushing carts just to make it out quicker.
The dumbasses that will complain the store is out of a product when there is a rush on it or a special.

I'm only Front End so I can't keep going on that unless it is Front End related ("the dumbasses that think a shopping cart is a trash can," for example) but anyone who works for this company knows what I mean. Our customers are IDIOTS and they only care about getting their product home and doing it as fast as possible. The conditions of the work place don't matter. It's like buying a product from China and taking a chance that you just put money in the pocket of a sweat shop.

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kroagrr wrote:

 

[Edited only to fix the link to the financials.]

[Edited again to restore the poll.]



-- Edited by kroagrr on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 05:05:02 PM



-- Edited by kroagrr on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 07:19:32 PM


 This article has no statistics or any information about they ranked these companies?  How did they come up with the rankings? Did they average employees salaries, divide the the number of employees by salaries paid, divide the salaries of bottom employees, use information from some untrustworthy site as glassdoe or or indeed that posts salary information?   Keep in mind that Kroger doesn't have stores in the NYC area (for one that pops into mind) so while you say they are the lowest laying grocer there are stores like A&P and Stop & Shop paying higher wagers because A) their states minimum wage is higher and B) the living wage is a lot higher than SC or TN...

Yes Kroger s in the top 5 (of that ranking) alone with Target, YUM Brands (KFC/Taco Bell etc), and McDonalds, so I aseume the ranking you've posted is for lower entry level employees because middle management and up are compensated competitively.  There is a reason these entry level employees are compensated less and these companies are in the list.  you are an entry level employee and need no skills or education to be hired. You are hired and can do the job after very little training if you choose to stay there that's up to you.  Why should the government or company step up to increase your wage?

For those proposing the minimum wage be increased, inflation will catch up soon enough and they'll be in the same position.  It's not like minimum wage would increase and everything else would stet the same.  

For those who think the company should pay more one of two things would happen...  1). Kroger raises prices, no body shops their anymore, you get laid off.  2).  Kroger keeps the same budget for salaries, there are less people working, you do more work!

 



-- Edited by BlackAudiCoupe on Wednesday 19th of November 2014 11:51:33 AM

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Let me point out that Aldi has an industrY high wage and industry low prices.  Good luck getting a job or even an interview.  My point is be careful what you wish for, you increase wages and there are many more applicants. You bitch about the companies wage but if they paid higher, with the completion, who knows if you'd even be working for them!



-- Edited by BlackAudiCoupe on Wednesday 19th of November 2014 09:47:45 PM

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BlackAudiCoupe wrote:

For those proposing the minimum wage be increased, inflation will catch up soon enough and they'll be in the same position.  It's not like minimum wage would increase and everything else would stet the same.  

For those who think the company should pay more one of two things would happen...  1). Kroger raises prices, no body shops their anymore, you get laid off.  2).  Kroger keeps the same budget for salaries, there are less people working, you do more work!

 

you are an entry level employee and need no skills or education to be hired. You are hired and can do the job after very little training if you choose to stay there that's up to you

 

 

-- Edited by BlackAudiCoupe on Wednesday 19th of November 2014 11:51:33 AM

 

You're absolutely right.   Costs will rise, but they'll have to rise evenly across the board since it would be a federal mandate.   That would eliminate the competition aspect as it would stay the same.     The theory that a raise in minimum wage would not necessitate a raise in prices equal to or greater than the raise, I believe to be an accurate one because it would lead to more spending meaning higher volumes, so margins wouldn't need to be as high to keep profits.    Will companies use this as an excuse to raise prices way higher and keep it that way while pocketing the profits?  Probably, and that's why there needs to be regulation.   Obviously this doesn't apply to a huge increase like the 15$ ones being thrown out there, but small incremental increases in wage exceeding inflation(with proper regulation to prevent collusion between companies to keep higher prices) would help bring people out of government assistance.

A lot of the excuse companies are giving for reductions in benefits etc now is the ACA and increased insurance costs.    Honestly, this is a fundamental issue with American society that could improve situations if handled appropriately.   Personally, I don't think that employers should be responsible for providing health care.   That only gives them more incentive to cut other areas and leverage with the unions.

Your second statement assumes that everyone is capable of advancing out of an entry level position and that there enough full time work positions beyond that to accommodate everyone.   This is simply not true.   Finding full time work without a degree that puts you into deep debt is not exactly easy for most unless you happen to have a marketable skill.   We are living in an age of ever-increasing automation, decreasing the need for a human workforce.   It's only going to get harder to find work for regular folks.  



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It's up to a person to change their lives and move out of an entry level position not up to the company and society to change an entry level position into a living wage position because someone cannot advance their education or skills.  Not everything requires a college or masters degree with years of education.  Instead of stocking shelves with groceries or running shelf check out someone could go to school and in a matter of months someone can be making in the $40,000's driving the tractor trailer with the groceries to the store or be fixing the refrigeration in the store.  Someone "stuck" in a entry level position doesn't get my sympathy... 



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Actually as the minimum wage was always intended as a living wage, it kind of is up to society to make sure that the minimum wage keeps up with the cost of living and the value of the dollar. Otherwise it'd still be 25 cents an hour, which would be low even for Kroger.

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BlackAudiCoupe wrote:

It's up to a person to change their lives and move out of an entry level position not up to the company and society to change an entry level position into a living wage position because someone cannot advance their education or skills.  Not everything requires a college or masters degree with years of education.  Instead of stocking shelves with groceries or running shelf check out someone could go to school and in a matter of months someone can be making in the $40,000's driving the tractor trailer with the groceries to the store or be fixing the refrigeration in the store.  Someone "stuck" in a entry level position doesn't get my sympathy... 


 Amen. If someone has the youth and the money, get a bachelors degree ASAP. It's basically the new high school diploma. If someone is short on time or doesn't have the funds to attend college, then at the very least try to get some kind of certification or license at the local junior college. Hell it's amazing how much your job prospects widen if you can get a CDL or a trade license like a locksmith license.



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BlackAudiCoupe wrote:

It's up to a person to change their lives and move out of an entry level position not up to the company and society to change an entry level position into a living wage position because someone cannot advance their education or skills.  Not everything requires a college or masters degree with years of education.  Instead of stocking shelves with groceries or running shelf check out someone could go to school and in a matter of months someone can be making in the $40,000's driving the tractor trailer with the groceries to the store or be fixing the refrigeration in the store.  Someone "stuck" in a entry level position doesn't get my sympathy... 


 If everyone had that training, there would be less chance of someone getting that position. If you have a sudden increase in people getting certification, then that means higher competition in the job interviews, and that more people will have a nice little degree that is worthless. Not everyone is able to fix refrigerators for a living. No matter what, you're always going to need someone to stock the shelves or run self checkout.

 
 
 
 
 


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Minimum Wage was created to be a base required wage that people would actually be able to have enough money to live on. When people here minimum wage now they think young teen. Not everyone could afford to go to college. Some like myself were picked on bad in high school and felt they had to leave just to get away from it. I was one of those. The stress of it all got to be too much and I dropped out. I did eventually get my GED. The thing is though, the chance of getting into any collage is pretty low. Then there is paying for it. Yes there are grants. But then there is the matter of transportation. You got gas money or in my case no car or license at all. Then you need to factor in how many of these people working these jobs are actually parents. Some single, some not. They struggle to make ends meet. Many working more then one job when they can. Yet the pay isn't enough. Then add in that most places that pay min wage don't like to even give out a lot of hours. Kroger is a good example of a place that is bad about that. To make things worse many of these places want to assign hectic schedules making it hard to schedule around other jobs they may have. Kroger is even worse then Wal-Mart about this. At least with Wal-mart you know your schedule at least 2 weeks ahead of time. No such luck at Kroger. Then these same people who are struggling don't exactly have time to go to school let alone the money. They are too busy working and struggling to make ends meet. This is the problem with the current min wage. It wasn't created to be a wage you struggle at. Prices don't have to always go up either. Yes I imagine some inflation would occur. But the larger amounts will be from greedier employers trying to make more money. It isn't like places like Wal-mart and Kroger pay out large amounts of money for their products in the first place. Getting things for wholesale at cheap prices is how these places thrive. It is what allows them to charge lower prices if they want. Though not all do. Many could actually afford to pay out more then they do. They would still be making plenty of money. But fact is they don't care. They want to make as much as they can and to hell with the employees. They will try to get away with paying as little as they can. Also another thing with these entry level positions. The ones they tend to promote aren't always even the harder workers. Many times they like to not promote the harder workers because they don't want to lose them from the position their in. So instead lazier ones get promoted just to help get them out of the hair of some of the ones running things in that area. Other times they and others get promoted because they are really friendly with people in charge. Then you got the butt kissers who kiss their way to the top. Then there are some positions that even someone like myself could do. Such as overnight stock. Not like I didn't ever do any stocking when i worked at Wal-Mart. I was an unloader which ment at nights after the trucks were done we were stuck helping 3rd shift stock a lot. This was something I actually informed Kroger of. But time and time again rather then promoting in store, they would bring in outside people to the overnight stock position. People who would end up quitting on them. When your a hard worker who isn't a part of a cliche, it can be hard to move up in a place such as Kroger. Many of us also can't be picky about what kind of jobs we get either.

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JamJulLison wrote:

Minimum Wage was created to be a base required wage that people would actually be able to have enough money to live on. When people here minimum wage now they think young teen. Not everyone could afford to go to college. Some like myself were picked on bad in high school and felt they had to leave just to get away from it. I was one of those. The stress of it all got to be too much and I dropped out. I did eventually get my GED. The thing is though, the chance of getting into any collage is pretty low. Then there is paying for it. Yes there are grants. But then there is the matter of transportation. You got gas money or in my case no car or license at all. Then you need to factor in how many of these people working these jobs are actually parents. Some single, some not. They struggle to make ends meet. Many working more then one job when they can. Yet the pay isn't enough. Then add in that most places that pay min wage don't like to even give out a lot of hours. Kroger is a good example of a place that is bad about that. To make things worse many of these places want to assign hectic schedules making it hard to schedule around other jobs they may have. Kroger is even worse then Wal-Mart about this. At least with Wal-mart you know your schedule at least 2 weeks ahead of time. No such luck at Kroger. Then these same people who are struggling don't exactly have time to go to school let alone the money. They are too busy working and struggling to make ends meet. This is the problem with the current min wage. It wasn't created to be a wage you struggle at. Prices don't have to always go up either. Yes I imagine some inflation would occur. But the larger amounts will be from greedier employers trying to make more money. It isn't like places like Wal-mart and Kroger pay out large amounts of money for their products in the first place. Getting things for wholesale at cheap prices is how these places thrive. It is what allows them to charge lower prices if they want. Though not all do. Many could actually afford to pay out more then they do. They would still be making plenty of money. But fact is they don't care. They want to make as much as they can and to hell with the employees. They will try to get away with paying as little as they can. Also another thing with these entry level positions. The ones they tend to promote aren't always even the harder workers. Many times they like to not promote the harder workers because they don't want to lose them from the position their in. So instead lazier ones get promoted just to help get them out of the hair of some of the ones running things in that area. Other times they and others get promoted because they are really friendly with people in charge. Then you got the butt kissers who kiss their way to the top. Then there are some positions that even someone like myself could do. Such as overnight stock. Not like I didn't ever do any stocking when i worked at Wal-Mart. I was an unloader which ment at nights after the trucks were done we were stuck helping 3rd shift stock a lot. This was something I actually informed Kroger of. But time and time again rather then promoting in store, they would bring in outside people to the overnight stock position. People who would end up quitting on them. When your a hard worker who isn't a part of a cliche, it can be hard to move up in a place such as Kroger. Many of us also can't be picky about what kind of jobs we get either.


Welcome to the working world kiddo. Sorry but there are plenty of well-paying jobs if you're willing to get your hands dirty. Look to your city government. A lot of times they're hiring jailers or other general laborers for decent pay. Minimum wage hikes are going to lead to inflation and automation. If I ran Kroger I'd hire engineers to build stocking robots and install kiosks that tell customers where items are. Might even try to implement higher volume self checkouts. Here the thing: robots don't call in, they don't mouth off to customers, and they don't mind overtime.



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Lord_Uboat wrote:
JamJulLison wrote:

Minimum Wage was created to be a base required wage that people would actually be able to have enough money to live on. When people here minimum wage now they think young teen. Not everyone could afford to go to college. Some like myself were picked on bad in high school and felt they had to leave just to get away from it. I was one of those. The stress of it all got to be too much and I dropped out. I did eventually get my GED. The thing is though, the chance of getting into any collage is pretty low. Then there is paying for it. Yes there are grants. But then there is the matter of transportation. You got gas money or in my case no car or license at all. Then you need to factor in how many of these people working these jobs are actually parents. Some single, some not. They struggle to make ends meet. Many working more then one job when they can. Yet the pay isn't enough. Then add in that most places that pay min wage don't like to even give out a lot of hours. Kroger is a good example of a place that is bad about that. To make things worse many of these places want to assign hectic schedules making it hard to schedule around other jobs they may have. Kroger is even worse then Wal-Mart about this. At least with Wal-mart you know your schedule at least 2 weeks ahead of time. No such luck at Kroger. Then these same people who are struggling don't exactly have time to go to school let alone the money. They are too busy working and struggling to make ends meet. This is the problem with the current min wage. It wasn't created to be a wage you struggle at. Prices don't have to always go up either. Yes I imagine some inflation would occur. But the larger amounts will be from greedier employers trying to make more money. It isn't like places like Wal-mart and Kroger pay out large amounts of money for their products in the first place. Getting things for wholesale at cheap prices is how these places thrive. It is what allows them to charge lower prices if they want. Though not all do. Many could actually afford to pay out more then they do. They would still be making plenty of money. But fact is they don't care. They want to make as much as they can and to hell with the employees. They will try to get away with paying as little as they can. Also another thing with these entry level positions. The ones they tend to promote aren't always even the harder workers. Many times they like to not promote the harder workers because they don't want to lose them from the position their in. So instead lazier ones get promoted just to help get them out of the hair of some of the ones running things in that area. Other times they and others get promoted because they are really friendly with people in charge. Then you got the butt kissers who kiss their way to the top. Then there are some positions that even someone like myself could do. Such as overnight stock. Not like I didn't ever do any stocking when i worked at Wal-Mart. I was an unloader which ment at nights after the trucks were done we were stuck helping 3rd shift stock a lot. This was something I actually informed Kroger of. But time and time again rather then promoting in store, they would bring in outside people to the overnight stock position. People who would end up quitting on them. When your a hard worker who isn't a part of a cliche, it can be hard to move up in a place such as Kroger. Many of us also can't be picky about what kind of jobs we get either.


Welcome to the working world kiddo. Sorry but there are plenty of well-paying jobs if you're willing to get your hands dirty. Look to your city government. A lot of times they're hiring jailers or other general laborers for decent pay. Minimum wage hikes are going to lead to inflation and automation. If I ran Kroger I'd hire engineers to build stocking robots and install kiosks that tell customers where items are. Might even try to implement higher volume self checkouts. Here the thing: robots don't call in, they don't mouth off to customers, and they don't mind overtime.


 

they do break down jackass and guess who has to fix them? another human.
When your Skynet world comes to play please do me a favor and step in front of one of the HKs. Thanks.



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FrontEndSlave wrote:
Lord_Uboat wrote:
JamJulLison wrote:

Minimum Wage was created to be a base required wage that people would actually be able to have enough money to live on. When people here minimum wage now they think young teen. Not everyone could afford to go to college. Some like myself were picked on bad in high school and felt they had to leave just to get away from it. I was one of those. The stress of it all got to be too much and I dropped out. I did eventually get my GED. The thing is though, the chance of getting into any collage is pretty low. Then there is paying for it. Yes there are grants. But then there is the matter of transportation. You got gas money or in my case no car or license at all. Then you need to factor in how many of these people working these jobs are actually parents. Some single, some not. They struggle to make ends meet. Many working more then one job when they can. Yet the pay isn't enough. Then add in that most places that pay min wage don't like to even give out a lot of hours. Kroger is a good example of a place that is bad about that. To make things worse many of these places want to assign hectic schedules making it hard to schedule around other jobs they may have. Kroger is even worse then Wal-Mart about this. At least with Wal-mart you know your schedule at least 2 weeks ahead of time. No such luck at Kroger. Then these same people who are struggling don't exactly have time to go to school let alone the money. They are too busy working and struggling to make ends meet. This is the problem with the current min wage. It wasn't created to be a wage you struggle at. Prices don't have to always go up either. Yes I imagine some inflation would occur. But the larger amounts will be from greedier employers trying to make more money. It isn't like places like Wal-mart and Kroger pay out large amounts of money for their products in the first place. Getting things for wholesale at cheap prices is how these places thrive. It is what allows them to charge lower prices if they want. Though not all do. Many could actually afford to pay out more then they do. They would still be making plenty of money. But fact is they don't care. They want to make as much as they can and to hell with the employees. They will try to get away with paying as little as they can. Also another thing with these entry level positions. The ones they tend to promote aren't always even the harder workers. Many times they like to not promote the harder workers because they don't want to lose them from the position their in. So instead lazier ones get promoted just to help get them out of the hair of some of the ones running things in that area. Other times they and others get promoted because they are really friendly with people in charge. Then you got the butt kissers who kiss their way to the top. Then there are some positions that even someone like myself could do. Such as overnight stock. Not like I didn't ever do any stocking when i worked at Wal-Mart. I was an unloader which ment at nights after the trucks were done we were stuck helping 3rd shift stock a lot. This was something I actually informed Kroger of. But time and time again rather then promoting in store, they would bring in outside people to the overnight stock position. People who would end up quitting on them. When your a hard worker who isn't a part of a cliche, it can be hard to move up in a place such as Kroger. Many of us also can't be picky about what kind of jobs we get either.


Welcome to the working world kiddo. Sorry but there are plenty of well-paying jobs if you're willing to get your hands dirty. Look to your city government. A lot of times they're hiring jailers or other general laborers for decent pay. Minimum wage hikes are going to lead to inflation and automation. If I ran Kroger I'd hire engineers to build stocking robots and install kiosks that tell customers where items are. Might even try to implement higher volume self checkouts. Here the thing: robots don't call in, they don't mouth off to customers, and they don't mind overtime.


 

they do break down jackass and guess who has to fix them? another human.
When your Skynet world comes to play please do me a favor and step in front of one of the HKs. Thanks.


 In the future many jobs will die but many jobs will be created. There probably won't be nearly as many cashiers in 2050, but there will probably be a lot more robotics technicians. Who knows what the labor force will look like in the future



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